The Lazy SEO For Lawyers Way to Attract ‘Ready-To-Buy’ Prospects [A CASE STUDY]
Interview with Fresno Worker’s Compensation Attorney Ka’ren Ketendjian
Joey Myers 00:07
Hello and welcome to the Lead Generation Strategies Podcast, this is your host Joey Myers from leadgenerationseoservices.com.
Joey Myers 00:15
This video is a case study that is going to highlight one of my good friends and clients, who owns a workers compensation attorney website. He's a partner and the website is: farleyketendjian.com.
Joey Myers 00:32
For those that are listening in the show notes we'll have the website URLs, you don't have to worry about trying to remember how to spell that and put that in. But I want to first welcome you to the show Ka'ren Ketendjian.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 00:45
Thank you, Joey. I'm very privileged to have you today.
Joey Myers 00:51
You got it. Go ahead and give a little bit of information about your business, what you guys do, maybe clientele, however you see it.
Give a little bit of information about your business, what you guys do, maybe clientele, however you see it...
Ka'ren Ketendjian 01:03
Well, I am workers compensation attorney, I have been in this business for about 30 years now. My task is to represent people who injured themselves at work.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 01:19
It could be bodily injury, it could be emotional injuries. Also, I represent those unfortunate or the families of those unfortunate who died at work because of their activities at work.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 01:36
I am running their cases from the very beginning, filing claims for them, securing benefits, trying to find doctors for them. In difficult cases, litigate, go to court appear in front of the judge.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 01:56
We do hearings, conferences, discovery, depositions, everything that usually an attorney does, but within the worker's compensation framework.
Joey Myers 02:07
Love it. As a business owner yourself, as a small business owner, you must be not only an attorney, but you got to be a marketer as well. What were some of the things that you tried in the past to get your name out there?
What were some of the things that you tried in the past to get your name out there? What were your marketing goals?
Ka'ren Ketendjian 02:24
Oh, well, I'm a one-man orchestra because I do everything for my business, like books, accounting, securing clients, paying the payroll for the employee, everything that usually a small business owner does, plus my attorney’s duties.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 02:43
You can understand that it's quite a challenge daily to divide my duties as an attorney and administrator at the same time.
Joey Myers 03:01
Right. Now, I know before we started working on the website, on your website, you had hired a company. Talk a little bit about that, what your goals were when you hired the company and what ended up coming to fruition at the end?
Ka'ren Ketendjian 03:18
Let me give you a little history. Traditionally, attorneys were working with the yellow pages to get their customers, the yellow pages are dead. I'm declaring their death at this point, as far as small businesses, and their opportunities to find customers are concerned.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 03:39
I think anybody that this point will put their name in Yellow Pages is just doing it for prestige. That's all. But it's not really giving us anything.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 03:49
I thought that maybe I need to boost a website. Had a rudimentary website, I wasn't pleased with it. It was just a one pager. So, I decided to hire a major firm. I don't want to name the firm, but I'm not very satisfied with the result.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 04:07
Yes, they did the website. But it took them more than half a year to compose the website, to finish it, while I was paying monthly for their services. And then it took them a couple of more months to put them into the search engines.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 04:25
Basically, the result was that I couldn't find my own self on Google or elsewhere. I had to go to page 35 or 25, under work comp attorney’s headings in Fresno, to get it. So, I wasn't satisfied with them.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 04:42
They started telling me that I need to give them keywords, pictures, that the time flew and basically, I was very dissatisfied. At the end they even told me I don't own my website. So, if I discontinue my service with them, they're just going to take it away from me. You can imagine what kind of a catastrophe that would be, had I not found you at that moment.
Joey Myers 05:11
Again, we won't name the company, but the company was marketed as a one stop shop, right. Once they did everything, they did the design, they did the marketing, they did everything.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 05:24
I know they did everything, but I spoke every time with a new person, it was very misguided, misdirected, nobody knew what I was complaining about, because I had to really start from the very beginning each time.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 05:39
All they needed is just regular payments. That part worked like a clock, but the rest of it was not what I was expecting. I know they did a good website, they filled in some of the information for me, I provided the other info. So, it was a joint concerted effort. But thanks that took seven, eight months.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 06:03
Why? I mean, for seven, eight months, I was paying for their services not getting any clients through their efforts. Can you imagine?
Joey Myers 06:11
Right and for those out there, the site, it's not like you have like my hitting sites, 360 plus blog posts. You had how many pages? Four or five pages, you had a homepage, you had a contact and about.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 06:26
Yes, very simple and it must work from the very beginning. I bless the contents, like within the first month of our work, I don't know why it took so long for them to really put it into the market.
In other words, when I started complaining that where am I, the visibility and stuff, they started giving me some accounts, charts, but that doesn't really help me...
Ka'ren Ketendjian 06:44
The result was that nobody would even take a responsibility for the result itself. In other words, when I started complaining that where am I, the visibility and stuff, they started giving me some accounts, charts, but that doesn't really help me.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 07:02
In other words, so what? They created a number [phone] for me, they took that number away from me, which created is also in the habit because I told them from the very beginning, I have an office number, why should I really go with your number?
Ka'ren Ketendjian 07:19
In other words, maybe the old clients or somebody now who wants to use that number is not able to use it anymore. It's like they were overly possessive of their work product. But their work and the product really left a lot of doubts in my mind, ability of usefulness or practicality and their use.
Joey Myers 07:46
I thought the icing on the cake was before we got doing the SEO stuff, we did a couple blog posts and we boosted a couple of those blog posts on Facebook. This was when you were during this battle trying to get the control of the site back.
Joey Myers 08:03
One of the charts that they showed you was hey, look, we've gotten you this extra traffic on Facebook, you see this over here? See this traffic? That wasn't there? That was us?
Ka'ren Ketendjian 08:15
Yes, because you came into the picture while they were still there. I wasn't finished with them when you came to assist me with my Facebook page. We started actively, doing video clips on different subjects together. And that helps a lot.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 08:38
Everybody who was telling me that I am here, they were just quoting the "I found you" on Facebook, rather than through your website. In other words, they first would go to my Facebook page, and then find my website, which is putting the cart in front of the horse.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 08:55
I want them to find my web page first, or website and then maybe visit my Facebook account. That's my goal. My goal is to make my website independently. Rich full for my business.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 09:15
Not just a nice, glitzy things that you can really reach by putting farleyketendjian.com but just by finding in the search engine, that was my prerogative from the very first day.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 09:31
When I heard that you are doing your SEO activity and started actively helping other businesses by putting their site into the search engine so that people would find it easier. I was very happy with that idea.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 09:47
I simply called the web people. I just said that I no longer need your services. Of course, they charged me for breaching the contract for a couple more months of doing nothing, basically.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 10:08
I ended up paying over six or 7k, for something, I never enjoyed a minute, and it was just a headache, and bunch of phone calls all the time to figure out why my money is not working. In this setting, I'm paying and you're not doing your job.
Joey Myers 10:28
Right. I know one of the things that I keep hearing that you want to be found on Google, want to be found primarily on Google, but Facebook and things like that.
The quality traffic on Facebook, or any social media platform, is considered interrupt marketing, people are normally scrolling their feeds for cat and dog videos...
Joey Myers 10:39
The difference between the two is on Facebook, or any social media platform that's considered interrupt marketing, people are normally scrolling their feeds for cat and dog videos.
Joey Myers 10:50
They see an ad for Farley Ketendjian workers comp, Attorney Fresno and say, oh, I need those services, and they click, and they come over. And whether they see something they like, or they don't, then they'll come back to Facebook, back to those cat and dog videos.
Joey Myers 11:05
In Google, what's better about Google people finding you through that search, is there a warmer lead, because they have a search intent, they are searching for specific things on Google.
Joey Myers 11:18
If they're searching worker's comp Attorney Fresno, and your site shows up on that first page, then that's going to be a warmer client, they're going to spend more time on your site than they would on say the social media, not saying social media is a bad thing to be doing boosting posts and to be on social media. But you want to be found on Google.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 11:39
Yes, I want to be found period. It's the medium that really helps people to find me, I can't really stop the hearing and say, Let's optimize my website for five seconds and I'll go back to the trial.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 11:56
I'm doing my job and somebody who I hire needs to do their job for me to really find my clients. That's my basic demands, because you know what my goal is, to at least have, monthly, five to 10 new clients.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 12:15
By reaching that goal, then whatever we're doing is working. We're not yet close to that, but the people are calling. But I think that maybe it takes time, I understand. But that is what ultimately, I look for, of course, I can reject, like five out of 10.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 12:37
Some people are just curious. They're not even clients. They're calling for their friends, relatives, in those cases, I can't even discuss anything, because that's not who I'm going to hire or who is going to hire me potentially.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 12:53
That's the goal, so that the community would be at the fingertips of my locations, they could find it instantly. If they have a question, like yesterday, somebody called they had a question. I gave them five minutes to ask me the question, because I advertise that my initial consultation is free.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 13:16
I cannot reject a person asking me a question, even though that might not end up into a professional relationship of a client and attorney. So that's what I'm looking for.
Joey Myers 13:32
What I want to do now is I want to share screen and bring up your website. Let me pull up your website first. Put my speaker here. So, it's ready to go.
What were some of the things that we did to go outside of what the other marketing company was doing?
Joey Myers 13:45
We're going to talk about what were some of the things that we did to go outside of what the other company was doing. So let me share my screen.
Joey Myers 13:57
See here. There we go. You see that?
Ka'ren Ketendjian 14:05
Yes, I do.
Joey Myers 14:07
Okay, so I'm going to move our little chat bubble here of us on the side.
Joey Myers 14:15
The old website it looked okay, part of what we do is we have a designer, graphic designer, her name is Genevieve, and she does UI UX graphic design, which is user interface user experience, which graphic design on its own can look really nice, but if it doesn't funnel the prospect into the call to action that we're looking for, then that design isn't necessarily optimized.
Joey Myers 14:41
In Ka'ren's case being a worker's comp attorney here locally, we wanted to get it to where the design itself funneled into his call to action, which is contact us one free. It looks like we'll have to maybe consolidate some of this verbiage a little because we're on a PC, we should be able to see this green here. So, it's just a little bit. We're above the fold is what we say.
Joey Myers 14:42
Before the user scrolls down, they should be able to see the call to action. So, there's a little bit of adjustment that we'll make here. But then if we look at it on mobile, which, I hope we can see this on the zoom here, but mobile, you can see the call. Can you see that, Ka'ren?
Ka'ren Ketendjian 15:23
Joey Myers 15:23
So, you can see the actions right there, which most of the web traffic right now or not right now, has been for a long time and is growing, is mobile. So mobile friendly, we should see Ka'ren's face that's more of a branding profile, logo and we should see that call to action there.
Joey Myers 15:41
The information about what they're searching should be clear as day. So, the PC is not quite as important as the mobile version. But the point is, we used UI UX graphic design to redo this website.
Joey Myers 15:57
We worked on the onsite optimization, which as you can see workers comp attorney Fresno, that was one of the main keywords that we're using to target, because there is such a thing as what's called search intent.
Joey Myers 16:10
We could target a keyword because it gets a lot of searches, we can target workers comp attorney by itself, and that search might get 2500 or 1000 searches a month. The problem with that is attorneys are almost bound by their states.
Joey Myers 16:29
So Ka'ren, maybe he can help out of state, but most likely cannot, has to be California law and we have to stay within that state. So, if somebody's searching workers comp attorney, and they're in Maine, chances are Ka'ren probably can't help with what they're doing, at least can't take up the case. Is that fair?
Ka'ren Ketendjian 16:51
Yes. I mean, you could just work comp attorney. Somebody from New Jersey or Illinois, you might just call or text us, ask a question. Not that I would really refuse to answer, but maybe my answer wouldn't apply to their local laws.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 17:11
Every state has their own local rules, laws, and statutes. So therefore, I'm licensed to practice in California, and we want to by the method of elimination, if you will, just trigger the customers who live in California.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 17:30
I wouldn't mind taking a good case from San Francisco or Los Angeles. It's in California, right? Or San Diego. But still, mostly for practical purposes. I would love to concentrate in the San Joaquin area, Valley, San Joaquin Valley, from Bakersfield through, let's say, Madera, and all that area. Yosemite. The whole area, yes.
Joey Myers 18:00
Right, this is highly targeted. So those people that are listening out there that have local brick and mortar businesses, with SEO, what's nice is not only can we increase the presence in a nationwide type of thing.
We can target local keywords that have high search “buyer’s” intent, meaning the intent is that they are close to checkout or ready to buy...
Joey Myers 18:16
If you have a course that you sell, and it's more of a nationwide or even countrywide, in a different country, but we can also take the local and we can target local keywords that have high intent, meaning the intent is that they are close to checkout or ready to buy.
Joey Myers 18:35
So, workers comp attorney Fresno is somebody who's shopping for an attorney in this area that has an issue, has a need, and they're looking to hire an attorney so they're doing that research and that guesswork workers comp attorney, that person may be in more of the beginning stages of researching what workers comp attorneys do.
Joey Myers 18:54
They're more top of the funnel we call it versus bottom of funnel which is more of a ready to buy person. So, we did UI UX design with Ka'ren's website, user interface, user experience.
Joey Myers 19:05
We did on site SEO, which you can see here we're using a lot of these keywords, we got California in here too, so that we can grab just California in general. And I wanted to show you a Google search really quick.
Joey Myers 19:25
Just because these keywords may not have a ton of traffic every month, so say workers comp attorney Fresno might have 170 searches per month. But those searches are quality searches and if we can show up high on Google for those keywords, we're going to be better off.
Joey Myers 19:45
Workers comp attorney Fresno California might have 70 searches but again it's highly relevant results of people that are searching for that so if we put workers comp attorney Fresno and let's see where Ka'ren showing up today, he's been as high as I think what six?
Joey Myers 20:00
I think we've had you five or six right, Ka'ren? I think so as they kind of vacillates between six and 10 kinds of goes in there, average seven, eight or whatever.
Joey Myers 20:11
For those that aren't familiar with search, you're going to have a lot of attorneys nearby. So, this is our goal to get here.
Joey Myers 20:18
Now what we're doing is we're doing a little bit of an experiment where we're only working on the outside or off page SEO is what we call it, so that's backlinks that citations, or directories, and guest posting. So, we're only doing citations.
Joey Myers 20:34
We did two months prior the last few months, we did some backlinking, and we're going back to citations. So, we've only been doing the citations and a little bit of backlinking since we first started.
Joey Myers 20:45
These are ads. These are lawyers nearby, so this is good. We want to be in this here to where people are searching and their phone is via GPS, are pulling in what workers comp attorneys in Fresno are nearby.
Joey Myers 21:03
So, our goal we're working to get into this here Google My Business, to where Ka'ren is going to show up here so it's going to take a little bit of time and on the map and then we're going now.
Joey Myers 21:15
This is number one for workers comp attorney Fresno, we got two, three Personal Injury Attorney Fresno, we got Yelp, which is number four lawyers find law which Ka'ren with the previous company was listed on, but it wasn't his company, it was Find Law and then they must go in there and find Ka'ren as an attorney.
The number one search for those key terms is getting 85% of the traffic...
Joey Myers 21:41
We got 1,2,3,4,5, and now he's six. He's six today on here for workers comp attorney Fresno. He's in here. Now, our goal obviously is right here, we want this one, number one, because the number one search for those key terms is getting 85-83 to 85% of the traffic.
Joey Myers 21:42
If there's 170 that are searching this, these guys are getting the bulk of the traffic coming from that. But we are on the first page and it just going to take a little bit more backlinking to get him to move up to that top spot. But that's only doing citations mostly in a couple months of backlinking. Anything you want to add?
Ka'ren Ketendjian 22:29
You are talking about your area and I'm fully trusting your professional judgment and expertise on this issue. All I can say that first, I'm very satisfied with the website, Genevieve is superb. I mean, the work that she has done.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 22:50
I know that this is something a work in the process and just rest on our laurels, we must always modify, introduce changes because the time dictates the needs, right?
Ka'ren Ketendjian 23:04
Whatever there is new, or whatever works in finding or in search, we need to apply. I'm fully confident that together, we can really come up with certain new topics. Especially now when there is a lot of crisscrosses between COVID related issues and work comp, maybe we need to optimize that side.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 23:33
Be up to date in our endeavors to help the community. Now, our goal is to make it easy for people to find me, and I'm ready to help them. Therefore, it is our duty to tune basically the search methodology into the demands of the time.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 23:57
That's the way I understand it. It is good that we have all the traditional keywords, which usually any person uses in order to find the work comp attorney in their area. We could also add other titles to that list. What do you think?
Joey Myers 24:17
You're correct. We were talking as you mentioned about the COVID vaccine stuff because that is another, I think untapped, if you want to call it a market for workers comp attorneys, and I'm not going to say any of the keywords because I don't want anybody stealing our keywords.
Joey Myers 24:32
We probably about six to what eight keywords that we're going to be targeting and again, they're lower, they're not getting 500 searches a month with these keywords. They're smaller, but they're highly targeted.
Joey Myers 24:44
They're people that are dealing with that right now with that specific issue. If that attorney shows up first, which mean that's low competition right now.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 24:57
The momentum is right to use that because the dynamic of the employer-employee relationship is changing as we speak, because of the mandates. Who knows what kind of interesting twist it will introduce into our practice, as people can use the mandate as an instrument of discriminating against the injured workers.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 25:23
That's a possibility, they can hire, and fire based on that perimeter, but usually they fire people who are no longer of interest. An injured workers are usually a headache for an employer and I'm very blunt about it.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 25:41
During my 30 years of practice, I've seen a lot of employers finding critics to get rid of their injured employees. Here comes the mandate and if you are an injured employee, and you are refusing the vaccine, or you are refusing to test on a periodic basis, you think that the employer will think twice before firing you?
Ka'ren Ketendjian 26:08
That's where we need to be alert. In other words, this search becomes also social issue if you will, because whatever interests them, some people call, not just because they were injured, but because they look salary, or their hours were reduced. It's all a mixed bag.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 26:31
A lot of people didn't work for a long time because they were on state disability. They were disoriented by saying, are they going to accept us back? There are a lot of other issues like work comp state disability. There are also other key things that we could use.
When targeting keywords, we're using that frame of mind where we're trying to think ahead, not where the hockey puck is, but where it's going to be...
Joey Myers 26:52
You could see how his minds work in here, we've had our conversations about this. And when we choose the direction that we go, that's the kind of logic we’re using. And we're using that frame of mind where we're trying to think ahead, not where the hockey puck is, but where it's going to be.
Joey Myers 27:10
We're going to be doing some of that, we're also going to take his website at some point. If you were to copy all on the words and count the words, I think it's around 750 words, or 800 words, we use as a write and rank strategy, where we're going to take that 750 words and turn it into three to 4000 words, which Google loves content, and we're going to redo that website there, that method itself is almost as valuable, maybe even more so than the backlinking side of things.
Joey Myers 27:40
We'll do a little bit more backlinking, too, in the future, as we start to get the ball rolling, get some momentum, get some more clients, have more cases closed, and things like that.
Joey Myers 27:49
Those are some of the future things that we're going to do. Anything else, Ka'ren, before I let you go that you wanted to add on this case study?
Ka'ren Ketendjian 27:59
No, I think we're doing everything right, we should simply optimize our efforts, and see whatever works better and put the accent on that. In other words, we need to have some sort of an accountability and our own in-house statistics of what works better, and probably could the accent on that feature. That's what I would just recommend at this point.
Joey Myers 28:28
Right and one other thing I forgot to mention, too, we've talked about is, since there's a lot of clienteles that speak Spanish, that's another option that we can use, we can have part of the site that is in Spanish, that is targeting Spanish keywords, so that when people on Google are searching for Spanish keywords, then those are coming up as well.
Joey Myers 28:51
Like Ka'ren said, we're going to take and deploy something, see how it does. If it does, if it flops, then we pull back and we try and deploy something else, although most of that stuff I've seen.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 29:03
I have a question. Can we use Spanish language keywords?
Joey Myers 29:08
Ka'ren Ketendjian 29:08
You know, there's two types to our website in the search engine.
Joey Myers 29:13
Exactly. We can search those keywords and see how, what the demand is for those keywords, and we can do that. That was one of the things we were running into some issues with Ka'ren's site because we had to take it from that company.
Joey Myers 29:26
We had to completely migrate the whole site over to our own so that it was our site, not theirs. Then with the hosting that was being used wasn't very good through GoDaddy and I've had other sites the same way.
Joey Myers 29:40
We had to migrate, take the hosting to a different thing. There were some things that we were dealing with, some challenges with the coding and whatnot. That was one of the things was one of our virtual assistants had optimized for Spanish key words I had found but I couldn't fix them because it would make the site all goofy.
Joey Myers 29:59
Once I switched back then we started seeing. I was wondering why the workers comp attorney Fresno wasn't ranking higher faster. It wasn't until we switched it back from Spanish to English, that those keywords started ranking a little bit better. But that is an option where we can translate in Spanish, use Spanish keywords that are being searched.
Joey Myers 30:19
We can now pull in people from Mexico or South America, whoever that are searching workers comp attorney Fresno as well. So that's it. That's another tactic that we can use.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 30:32
I think that you could probably consult with my assistant Lucia Prada, regarding what works in Spanish because she talks to my clients constantly in Spanish.
Joey Myers 30:45
You know Spanish, you speak what, four or five different languages?
Ka'ren Ketendjian 30:49
Yes, well, I know some Spanish but not enough really to pull it through, on a grammatical level.
Where can we find you if we want to reach out?
Joey Myers 31:00
Okay, cool. Well, Ka'ren, thank you for your time today. If anybody wants to get involved with your services, workers comp attorney Fresno, or just in California in general, where can they find you?
Ka'ren Ketendjian 31:16
Well on the website, and they could also dial 559-222-8090, that's the phone number
Joey Myers 31:25
In social media?
Ka'ren Ketendjian 31:27
Yes, Facebook, I'm in the Facebook.
Joey Myers 31:31
If you just search Farley Ketendjian and for those again listening to this, I'll have this in the show notes. You don't have to remember or spell out the name and then have to remember the name because it'd be kind of tough to remember.
Joey Myers 31:43
So again, thanks, Ka'ren for meeting today and doing this case study with me. As always, we have some great conversations. It'd be nice to be a fly on the wall.
Ka'ren Ketendjian 31:51
You're welcome, Joey. Have a nice day.
Joey Myers 31:54
Thank you, sir.